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Old Sep 26, 2005, 02:00 AM // 02:00   #1
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after playing much pvp and faction farming a few things come to mind. the time it takes you to win a battle vs faction reward.

hoh and gvg gives alot of faction, but takes alot of time to assemble a group, strategy and fight the battles.

teams fall victim to still having to find a party and many chances of them leaving after the first loss. at least 1 monk is in most parties so battles will always take some time.

competition is really different considering you don't get to pick your teammates. battles can be done quickly and assembled in 30 sec. more killing more faction.

everyone complains its hard to get a monk and that's what the battle really comes down to. so why not be the monk yourself. knowing you will always have a monk really helps in consistant wins vs random people. being the monk yourself also gives you the edge that it won't be some noob at the helm with the most important job (sounds familar GWB).

here is my build that gets me 7-8 flawless consistantly no matter what party i end up with.

Mo/Ele

Armor:

all tattoos with healing helm
sup healing
minor all other
sup vigor

Attributes (with runes included):

16 healing
9 divine favor
9 protection
7 earth magic

Skills:

healing hands
healing breeze
orison of healing
armor of earth
blessed sig
life bond
balth spirit
res sig


Start of battle life bond your party and cast balth spirit on yourself. this will cut the dmg by attacks in half (aka rangers and warriors). with the dmg is redirected to you and reduced by LB balth spirit will trigger giving you 1 energy. even if the dmg is reduced to 0 ballth spirit triggers. blessed sig recharges every 10 sec giving 12 energy with each use.

monks are always the first attacked and always will be in competition. tank warriors do you no good seeing as they are last killed. what's the point of a tank if it never gets hit. your monk needs to be your tank. cast armor of earth and don't even try to run just sit there. you now have 100 armor vs physical and magic. basicly you cut the dmg delt to you in half from physical and elemenatal. if you run you are not casting to heal yourself or your party. you also make it harder for your party to hit the enemy since they are chasing you. cast breeze with 9 hp regen and just watch the battle unfold. spam breeze as much as possible on the team. if anyone gets really low start with an orison spike then hands if needed.

this build farms faction very well with 1-2 minute battles and 80% of them will be flawless no matter what teamates you get.
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 07:27 AM // 07:27   #2
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well the lifebond one is good, but the other skills in your setup really arent. If you want lifebond, focus fully on protection, but dont do everything, u'll have too low attributes.

Btw your combination is fine with attributes. But your heal spells arent that great ....
Try to bring in WoH instead of Healing Hands (personal opinion). I think its much better then any other Heal-Elite for Monks.
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 10:04 AM // 10:04   #3
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At first glance it looks good against physical damagers, but how do you survive against damage spikes, stacks of hexes/conditions? I don't like B.Sp as energy management because it's unreliable. Generally speaking, you'll be the first to die in random arena so the resurrection signet is optional on a monk.

You can get flawless on a regular basis when you play a monk. If the opponent team doesn't have a healer it generally crumbles so fast you can't be killed.
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 10:19 AM // 10:19   #4
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yep ... thats why I never really liked Heal monks, first off they cost too much energy, secondly you dont have a good spell against conditions. Protection spells cost less energy, you have Mend Aliment against condition spammers and you heal your teammates pretty well.

What you want more?
hexes cant kill your teammates anyways, just try to find the middle way, protect yourself from hexes (not spamming self protection enchantements, because your team gets down then, only against hexes), for the rest you'll be fine.
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 11:59 AM // 11:59   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrogDevourer
I don't like B.Sp as energy management because it's unreliable.
Yey it is, because there are some people who cast like Balthasars Spirit, Mending, and 2other enchants for self defence as monk.
And they just dont get attacked and have to watch their team die. Not a very good combo.
But if you combine Balthasars spirit with other skills, it turns out to a very good energy management system. Just up to you if you like more the +4mana regen, or gettin energy for being hit.
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 02:11 PM // 14:11   #6
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It's good against poor sword/axe warriors who aren't dealing a decent amount of damage, and that's it. How do you survive against damage spikes, stacks of hexes/conditions? Getting 1 energy per hit doesn't help much when you're killed in 4 hits or by max DoT. And what do you do if an ally is smart enough to disable the opponent attackers with curses or blindness, or if an opponent uses enchantment removal?

Simply put, in the best conditions, B.Sp can be a great energy management skill, but in most cases you can't squeeze enough energy out of this skill to count on it when you need energy, and especially against a competent enemy.
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 03:57 PM // 15:57   #7
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yey sometimes you have problems, but its not an essential one, I use the full power of mend aliment ... If they are condition stackers, I just wait till my health drops very much down, then use mend aliment, to fully heal myself. But with my build i get enough energy from balt spirit, before I was using Essence Bond too, but dropped it due to space problems.

If I get the time I will experiment, as the most ppl go for Warriors, my whole armor is melee-defence, so warriors arent really my main problem. To counter the eles, im a prot monk, reducing their dmg with my prot skills by a very huge amout. So the only thing that could kill me then are hexes, thats why I use hex breaker, because necro cant cast fast enough to come trough it, or just with 2-3hexes out of 8. And Mesmers dont really have harmfull hexes, you can evade mesmers hexes, by just watching yourself and knowing each of their hexes. So you know what to do against which one without being able to remove them with a spell. That of course requieres lods of experience, but it works so far.

and trust me, B. Sp. is the best energy management a monk got, if you combine it with other skills, focused on u alone, it surely doesnt give you enough energy.
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 04:04 PM // 16:04   #8
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As you closed the other thread, just one last thing.
The hexes might get one of the teammembers down, but dont kill him, and its not necessary to win a match, because if the monk stays alive, and keeps on healing the team, the hexes disappear after a while, and the battle goes on. The Monk is the importanst part of the team. So far, Im not only playing random arena, but also tombs and team arena. Well, I wanted to bring something to the bord. Know what? The only answer I got, offering them my help, was a slap in the face. Think thats great? I dont really.
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 05:51 PM // 17:51   #9
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hexs are not a problem for the majority b/c i'm a smart player. my fav class on the game is a mesmer so i know what everyone of the icons are.

there are only a few hexes on the game do bother me but then agian those hexes bother everyone.

btw spike dmg with armor of earth is no longer spike dmg. got hit by a maxed lightning orb for 60 dmg. that is cutting the thing in half even with the 25% armor penetration.

i play it smart and watch my guys. breeze does most of the work by spamming it on entire party reduce the amount of orison i need to cast. if i'm not being hit i get the 12 energy ever 10 sec, and if i'm not getting hit bond is redirecting to me anyways give more energy. energy management is the hardest thing with a monk. this build takes care of that easy. you hit me it gives me energy. you don't hit me you still give me energy.

just try it before you bash it.

Last edited by twicky_kid; Sep 26, 2005 at 05:53 PM // 17:53..
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Old Sep 26, 2005, 11:15 PM // 23:15   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
hexs are not a problem for the majority b/c i'm a smart player. my fav class on the game is a mesmer so i know what everyone of the icons are.
Well then what you do do against a Conundrum, then a couple of hexes/conds with permanent -10hp degen on multiple players. That will simply drain your energy if you try to counter it with Breeze. Same question with a fragility mesmer or other armor independant damage? My point is that armor is good, but the best opponents you'll meet won't just deal regular damage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
btw spike dmg with armor of earth is no longer spike dmg. got hit by a maxed lightning orb for 60 dmg. that is cutting the thing in half even with the 25% armor penetration.
Simply put, enchantment removal will break your main defense, and you have no backup. The same stands for energy stealing. You have no way to reliably gain energy against a good inspiration mesmer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
breeze does most of the work by spamming it on entire party reduce the amount of orison i need to cast.
Great. Now how do you fuel a 10e skill like breeze with 0pips of energy? Balthazar's Spirit? Either your opponents are fighting you with zero damage attacks and zero enchantment removal (typical palanoob), or you have a secret trick I'd like to know. A decent warrior build will do more damage with each hit than you can heal with the energy gained from B.Sp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
just try it before you bash it.
I didn't bash it. I just explained to DLAM why I didn't like B.Sp as energy managment skill, încluding in the random arena. As for your build, I asked a couple of questions which you answered or not, and I gave a few tips which you can ignore if you want. If you don't want questions and constructive criticisms, then add a warning to the OP.

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Last edited by FrogDevourer; Sep 26, 2005 at 11:55 PM // 23:55..
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Old Sep 27, 2005, 02:47 PM // 14:47   #11
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You guys really need to revisit the competition arena. Remember that you are going to almost always be facing n00bs. Focused fire almost never happens. Condition stacking and good inpiration mesmers are even more rare. Fighting a group with 3 W/Mo happens all the time (ok, I exagurate but Warriors are by far the most common opposition and will be disorganized and without complementing skills). I like this build considering the realities of CA.
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Old Sep 27, 2005, 03:11 PM // 15:11   #12
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twicky, there are a few problems with your build, Im sorry but this has to be said, so you can make improvements.

1) As you have earth magic to protect yourself, this has some negative consequences: you dont have all your attributes to spend on monk spells.

2) Bad energy management, I mean the thing with balthasar is a good idea, but lets be honest. you get 12 energy every 10seconds, by not getting hit.
Against a bad team ok, you can get out of it. Lets just get the case with the ennemi team having one ele, no matter which one.

3) Bad Heal skills: actually your orison heals like 75 or something. Now lets come back to our ele:
*The damage doesnt get halfed by Lifebond, because it only considers attacks.
*Conclusion: You dont get energy for the ele hitting you or your teammate.
Now Healing hands doesnt really help against 100+ air damage, now tell me please. how do you want to keep yourself or a teammate against an ele alive with 12energy for 10seconds? thats like casting orison twice which makes about ~150healing. Thats how much he takes off from you in 2-3seconds.

Any case like that, no matter if its Ele, Necro or Mesmer with -Life regeneration hexes. Lifebond doesnt half the damage and you dont get energy. The only thing it really works for is a nooby paladin-prebuild warrior, for the rest, forget it.
Try to get something other.
Like Divine Boon is really good for energy management. Try Peace and Harmony+Divine Boon, you still have +4 mana regeneration and heal for much more.

anyways, good comments FrogDevourer
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Old Sep 27, 2005, 05:42 PM // 17:42   #13
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this is made for CA to get flawless victories no matter what team you get. for people that have just started getting into pvp and need some faction this is the build i'd go with.

i know its not something you normally see which is why i think it works so well. make it and see what happens.

there is always going to be problems but you have to consider most enemies are warriors and rangers. they make you an energy machine while doing almost nothing with the armor of earth on. if they hit anyone else on your team it will be cut in half while still giving me energy.

i spam breeze on everyone and wait till they are <50% hp to cast orison or hands. if there are 2 in trouble i cast hands on one then breeze the other followed by orison. then i go back to the person that has hands and breeze him.
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Old Sep 27, 2005, 05:45 PM // 17:45   #14
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16 HEaling is way bad. It would be much better for have like 12 healing and 14 or 15 divine favor, and then make prot higher.
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Old Sep 27, 2005, 05:51 PM // 17:51   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrogDevourer
It's good against poor sword/axe warriors who aren't dealing a decent amount of damage, and that's it. How do you survive against damage spikes, stacks of hexes/conditions? Getting 1 energy per hit doesn't help much when you're killed in 4 hits or by max DoT. And what do you do if an ally is smart enough to disable the opponent attackers with curses or blindness, or if an opponent uses enchantment removal?

Simply put, in the best conditions, B.Sp can be a great energy management skill, but in most cases you can't squeeze enough energy out of this skill to count on it when you need energy, and especially against a competent enemy.
i don't die in 4 hits which explains why this build is designed for flawless victories in the CA (competition arena).

frag is easy to counter considering it has a 3 sec window on its dmg dealing. 2 orison negates a frag. i have since removed my res for mend ailment and it seems to work much more stable than before.

i don't encounter much enchant removal in CA but when i do i always have breeze as a cover spell.

main problems i have is backfire, soul leech and diversion, but any monk w/o obsidian flesh or spell breaker are going to have problems with those hexes.
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Old Sep 27, 2005, 05:53 PM // 17:53   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzan
16 HEaling is way bad. It would be much better for have like 12 healing and 14 or 15 divine favor, and then make prot higher.
before you comment on this build on paper go try it out then come back to me.

many builds look good on paper but when you accually try them it could be the opposite.
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Old Sep 27, 2005, 06:28 PM // 18:28   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
this is made for CA to get flawless victories no matter what team you get. for people that have just started getting into pvp and need some faction this is the build i'd go with.

i know its not something you normally see which is why i think it works so well. make it and see what happens.

there is always going to be problems but you have to consider most enemies are warriors and rangers. they make you an energy machine while doing almost nothing with the armor of earth on. if they hit anyone else on your team it will be cut in half while still giving me energy.

i spam breeze on everyone and wait till they are <50% hp to cast orison or hands. if there are 2 in trouble i cast hands on one then breeze the other followed by orison. then i go back to the person that has hands and breeze him.
err ... resulting to this post I think you didnt read mine, go and read the one I posted just above that one, and then please post again. Read it carefully and think about it before you post again, thank you.
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Old Sep 27, 2005, 06:30 PM // 18:30   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzan
16 HEaling is way bad. It would be much better for have like 12 healing and 14 or 15 divine favor, and then make prot higher.
I agree with twicky, your proposition is way worse than his one, way too worse. Look at his spells, do you see anything that would be greatly improved by Divine Favor?

I dont see a single one, so doing your proposition would just be a waste of attributes, and gettin healing power lower.
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Old Sep 27, 2005, 06:59 PM // 18:59   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dont Look At My
err ... resulting to this post I think you didnt read mine, go and read the one I posted just above that one, and then please post again. Read it carefully and think about it before you post again, thank you.
just the same as i said to Dzan go try the build then come back and talk to me. no point in arguing about.

Last edited by twicky_kid; Sep 27, 2005 at 07:06 PM // 19:06..
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Old Sep 27, 2005, 07:02 PM // 19:02   #20
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well I think you dont know who you talking to, I playd so many variations of this build, you just made it up in your head, so I think I'm the one who should tell you:
"Go, follow my advices and practise a bit, grow up, and after you're a bit more mature come back again!"
Do I talk like that? No I dont, but if you want it that way, I can also go like that.

Of your last post I think you still didnt read mine, stop posting worthless staff and start reading my advices. If you want help, first read the stuff I posted down, or ask FrogDevourer to close the thread, that's up to you.
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